Ard boys list ideas/ Oblit giveaway reminder #1

First off, check out the next post to see about winning some cool Obliterators*****

So its been one year since I was dragged off the soap box I used to stand on. The Dual Lash list that this blog was centered around, morphed from my last years 'Ard boys list. Last year I played a beefed up Dual Lash list, and I did really well. I didnt win the semi-finals because if you remember with the old guard codex you could have a 5 kill point army and that was what I played against in game 3 of the semi finals. It wouldnt matter except that we played a kill point mission knocking each other out. After that fiasco of wiping out literally half his army with only one kill point to show for it, I sulked. I had felt cheated and I was tired of loosing. So when Fritz and I started talking about the 08' GT, I said that I was going to play to win.

ANYWAY back to what this post is about. Last year, In my opinion Lash was King. Thats because it wasnt quite figured out by the majority that Mech is the real King. I am making a prediction, there will be more Vulkan He'stan armies than anything else in the semi finals. That leaves the question, what is a chaos lord to do. I have only played it once, but my competitive Khorne list over on the right was fun and nasty against Khornate Daemon Kris. I would like to somehow do the 3 Landraider list with escorting rhinos but with all those twin linked meltas running around I might be wasting my time. Knowing that people will be beefing up on anti-tank stuff in there army, a horde list may be the way to go. I dont have that so what do you guys think. Should I just beef up my dual lash list or try something new! ANY IDEAS, Let me know. This is a base list with no tweaking or wargear!

HQ Sorcerer X 2 = 250
Elites 3 man termies w/combi meltas X 3 315
with Land raider transport X3 660
Troops plague marines with meltas in rhinos
Hvy Sprt Oblits



13 comments:

AutarchAndrew said...

hope to see you in the finals matt

eriochrome said...

Are they still running that dedicated transports do not yield kill points like last year? Easy kill points from drop pods has been one of the weaknesses of the drop pod vulkan lists.

Black Matt said...

I dont know, good question, Ill check

Nagamo said...

Does Chaos have an identity crisis? I´m still working on an effective list and have the same problems, so does my fellow CSM player. Lash+Oblits have lost some of it´s punch ´cause of the all-mech-metagame and the changing of game mechanics in 5th edition. CC has become much more deadly than shooting and Lash+PM+Oblits is a strong shooty list, but lacks some punch in CC. 3 LR plus Berserkers seems to be a response to the environment changes, but I don´t like these list´s much, because they are short on anti-tank-weapons, just think about facing the new IG. Another popular list is the "pure" Death Guard with dual Wings+Nurgle+Warptime princes, PM and heavy stuff. Looks good at first sight, as you don´t offer your opponent targets for his small arms fire. It´s hard to get a non-rhino-killpoint, but with so many melta around, is this the best chaos can do? I´m not sure. Comparing the "old" CSM codex with newer ones like SM, the missing synergies become obvious. Only Lash-HQs gives other CSM units some advantage, all other HQs are CC beasts at best. Chaos doesn´t have HQs that gives you rerolls, let´s your guys Waagh!like fleet, etc. So what to do with CSM, if you want to be effective in the current environment? I really don´t know! Currently, I´m working on combining Lash with CC-power and/or a lot of flexible scoring units (slaaneshy CSM, dual melta, PF, sometimes combi-flamer, Rhino). Long range AT is a problem if you want to be really mobile, ´cause oblits doen´t fit the concept and the other heavy support choises don´t give me a kick (I would sell my soul to the chaosgods for just having an autocannon on the predator). At the moment I ´m testing Terminators with heavy and combi-flamer, so I have some templates where units can be lashed to. To some it up: Chaos can still win a high percentage of games ´cause of great individual units, but with the current codex and metagame, it has some problems affecting army construction. An identiy crisis? Maybe not, but at least a midlife crisis...

Black Matt said...

AWESOME post Nagamo,
Yeah this cheese list has definetly lost some of its punch. Everyone and their mother will be playing mech. I didnt have my camera last night but you should have seen the ard boys tank list @ the club last night. I think it was 15 tanks, something like that. Saying that! there are still some tricks in the ol chaos bag. Look at outflanking chosen with 5 melta guns and a rhino for speed. That could be some real problems for your opponent in the right situation. And sorry but I have to disagree about the oblits. They can fulfill everyroll out there. Deepstriking, blasting whatever, badasses with powerfists and invulnerable saves. I dont see it being more versatile.

Anonymous said...

Alright this is my two cents (so please dont take it to heart since an opinion is worth just that,two cents).

The list looks solid and having three land raiders coming at you with termies will always make a person asses what they need to kill first. In my mind I am seeing this list running tactics similar to the way Fritz over at way of Saim-Hann runs...well all his armies. However instead of using lash on your sorcerer what about using wind of chaos instead? (or better yet throwing Typhus's nasty ass in with a group of termies)
4+ auto wound with no cover or armor save and automatic glancing on armor at +4 just screams nasty to me. If an IG army is running tank squads remember that a immobile turns into a destroyed.

Chernobyl said...

Last post was mine sorry for some reason google (or myself) is being stupid

Magilla Gurilla said...

I recently came back from my second two hour trip up the state to play in some “Ard Boyz games and I will have to agree with Matt on the lists that are popping up, they are insanely tank and plasma cannon heavy. Due to this, I have had to put my Tyranids on the back burner for ‘Ard Boyz (trying to get out of work).

I think the list is a good start to answering the dramatic increase in mech armies. I would think about changing out one of the terminator squads for a chosen squad that is meltagun heavy to assist in cracking open some of the armor you will be seeing.

As an example, this is the list that I am planning of fielding for ‘Ard Boyz, my test games last night went very very well, maybe it will help, if not, well, I just wanted to post it anyways.

HQ:
•Farseer w/Singing Spear, Runes of Warding and Witnessing, Spirit Stones, Doom, and Guide.
•Farseer w/Singing Spear, Runes of Warding and Witnessing, Spirit Stones, Doom, and Guide.

ELITE:
•Fire Dragon Squad of 9 in Wave Serpent with Shuriken Cannon, TL-Bright Lances and Spirit Stones.
•Fire Dragon Squad of 9 in Wave Serpent with Shuriken Cannon, TL-Bright Lances and Spirit Stones.
•Fire Dragon Squad of 9 in Wave Serpent with Shuriken Cannon, TL-Bright Lances and Spirit Stones.

TROOPS:
•Dire Avenger Squad of 10 in Wave Serpent with Shuriken Cannon, TL-Missile Launchers and Spirit Stones.
•Dire Avenger Squad of 10 in Wave Serpent with Shuriken Cannon, TL-Missile Launchers and Spirit Stones.
•Storm Guardians Squad of 10, 2w/ Fusion Guns, Warlock w/ Singing Spear and Enhance in Wave Serpent with Shuriken Cannon, TL-Missile Launchers and Spirit Stones

HEAVY SUPPORT:
•Fire Prism with Shuriken Cannon, Holo-field, and Spirit Stones
•Fire Prism with Shuriken Cannon, Holo-field, and Spirit Stones
•Fire Prism with Shuriken Cannon, Holo-field, and Spirit Stones


That is my list and it is my opinion that you need to increase the amount of meltaguns and chosen will help you do that, just my opinion....however.

Nagamo said...

Thx Matt, I partly agree about the Oblits. They still are a very good choise in heavy support, propably the best one. What makess them so strong is the flexiblity: pop a rhino with the lascannon at 48´´, shoot templates at packed units, etc. But you have to pay for the flexibility, Oblits are expensive and taking them affects the overall concept of the army. They are slow and if you use them mainly for long range antitank and the rest of the army is "in-your-face", Oblits are a little serperated from the rest. Deepstriking them is a solution, but then you won´t be able to fry transports early on. Don´t get me wrong, I love to deepstrike behind enemy lines and bring harassment to my opponents support, but I use Terminators for this roll. I know, they are a little out of fashion, but let´s compare them to deepstriking Oblits: for the same price, you can take 6 Termis with heavy Flamer, 5 Combi-Melta and either Mark of Slaanesh or a Chain Fist. Let´s assume the deepstrikers arrive at turn 3 from reserves and you get them where you want to. The Oblits will shoot 3 melta weapons and will receive a lot of punishment afterwards. Same thing for the Termis, but 2 more shots turn 3. Comparing the stats, the Termis have 2 more wounds, same saves and 6 attacks more in CC, 9 more at the charge. Taking the metagame-meltaspam into account, the Terminators will survive longer, because one melta will kill an Oblit and a Termi alike, thx to S8. So for deepstriking, I like Termis more, as they both take a lot of hurt if positionend offensivly and will not get a secound chance often...

Chernobyl said...

I do have to agree with Nagamo as far as using oblits in a attacking unit. However looking at in another perspective as using them in a defensive manner as they have two things that would make them great at holding an objective if coupled with plague marines ( in other words using the plague marines as a meat shield for the oblits and giving them that cover save) the synergy of this combo would make prying your troop choices off an objective ( which is 2 out of 3 of the game types)that much more of a pain in the ass. you have the versatility of weaponry the oblit can bring as well as the sheer beefyness of plague marines. You wouldnt really want to move oblits to much any way what with the slow and purposeful rule they have slapped on them any way.

Khornatedemon said...

Matt remember when you played me with your land raider khorne army i wasnt using vulkan and it was melta misses that screwed up my game plan. The army I play now with vulkan, the redeemer, and the th/ss terminators is a much different beast.

for this years ard boyz your going to have to be ready for some beast lists as opposed to last year. mech makes lash not as usefull. It can still be great once you pop the transports though.

But be ready for vulkan lists with tons of 3+ invul terminators and meltas, guard armies with 30 meltaguns/vendettas/plasma tanks of doom, orks with either a ton of battleagons or nob bikers, and a myriad of other nasty stuff.

we will see how both our armies do when we get our game in on monday. But if lash and deep striking become a problem then I will be freeing up 68 points for an inquisitor with a hood, 2 mystics, and 2 heirophants for defense. Its gonna be a good game though!

Black Matt said...

Kris,
I cant on Monday. Little Will called me out! Can you do the following Friday or Monday? I know whats up, and so you know, I have 27 meltas myself, 29 if I go with Magilla's sugestion

Khornatedemon said...

I can pretty much do whenever. I need to get as many practice games in as I can to get used to the biker army. My army packs 21 twin linked meltas that can all move 12" a turn and shoot. Plus 2 th/ss terminator squads :p