I had someone ask me the other day why I didnt display my army from the Confict Gt coverage back in January. I guess I forgto and I didnt have any pictures of it from the event so I dug this guy out and took some pictures for your delight. He is of course, my wolf/chaos guard battle leader on a bike with wolf claws. A quick question, how does anyone have the mental fortitude to learn 40K but cant remember what codex they are playing against if the other person is palying a counts as army?
13 comments:
Last time I saw "Jazz Hands" he hadnt seen paint yet. He looks real good now. Do you plan to paint the bolters at some point? As thats the only thing that really detracts from the overall look.
The counts as argument will continue to rage. However i see more and more Tournament organizers limiting Counts as. St Val Massacre is doing this by disallowing counts as armys. It will be interesting to see this in effect and hw far they go to limit it.Especially DiY marine armies.
That absolutely blows my mind. jawaball's emo vamps are allowed but my black legion wouldnt be? Chris is using fantasy chaos warrior bodies and night lord heads while I am using Dark angels with chaos Iconography painted on. There are almost no chaos bits on my guys except the shoulder pads and that would be unexceptable? I have not yet seen or heard an decent arguement for banning/hating counts as armies. "It rubs me the wrong way!" Give me a break, your selective prejudice rubs me the wrong way! (not you pisslams, but You in a general sense)
Extremely hypocritical!!! I wonder what boooks Im gonna have to burn.
@ tordeck
No I dont see meyself paintign the rest of the bike anytime soon! No need really! I have some Daemons to paint!!!!!!!!;)
Honestly Matt that's my only issue with "Counts As" Armies... They aren't WYSIWYG. When you look at an Army with Chaos Crap on it it looks like a Chaos Army. It's easy to forget that you told me it's a Wolfguard Terminator when it looks like a Chaos Terminator. Not that there are a lot of differences but there are in face differences.
Not Knocking Counts as Armies but I can definitely see the points for both sides of the argument. It's not WYSIWYG and that confuses people and makes them forget things. If I told you all my TH/SS Terminators were equipped with Lightning Claws but they never saw combat till turn 6 would you really remember that they were Lightning Claw Termies? Honestly you might, but will everyone? No. I know that's more drastic than "This Chaos Marine is a Grey Hunter" but honestly... Is it? Are the icons on his shoulders not the WYSIWYG for Counter Charge? Or having Though shall know no fear?
All I'm trying to say here is don't get mad because I forget your army is a Space Wolf army when it sure doesn't look like one and you don't have a big sign in front of me saying "Hey don't forget my army isn't Chaos it's SW.
I hear ya but my armies are 100% wsywig and I don't mix troop types when I go to tourney playing a counts as army. you know all my infantry are grey hunters or plague marines. I have never had a problem in person with someone being confused. Only here on the interwebs with what ifs and what nots.
I just wanna say there is a lot of hypocritical nonsense going around with what's acceptable and what's not.
I think limiting counts-as is taking things too far. It's nothing but personal preference being imposed onto the gamers play/hobby.
Enforce WYSIWYG, but limiting counts-as? I don't know.
Are Lamenters allowed? Angels Sanguine? Is there a huge difference? If my Blood Angels are blue, can't I play at V-Day?
There are plenty of people who are skipping V-Day b/c of the limitation, actually. I don't think I'd ever support a tourney with such ideals.
Actually I totally agree with Mat.
As he know due to some mails, I'm building some Renegade Blood Angels, and I'm using for the tanks, well SM LR but I give it spikes from chaos tanks sprues, my Baals get also spiake, or one of them has greenstuff all over it simulating pustules and nurgle marks, My AC/LC pred are actually Chaos predator, but they are exactly the same than marines, the ones with spikes have Khorne marks. so what's wrong? It looks chaos, but everything is WYSIWYG.
My assault marines are berserkers, and who can say it's not WYSIWYG?
Power armor? Check
bolt pistol? Check
CCW? check
PW on sargent? check.
My Assault termies are some mix and matching, I have one Chaos Termi body, with a fantasy Chaos Lord on Juggernaut Shield acting as SS, and a SM storm hammer, another one has a shield, with all "good" iconografy scraped out and green stuffed on the shield to make pustules, another ove has the shield with holes representing shoots, or broken sides...
My mephiston is My arhiman's body, changed the bolt pistol for a plasma pistol, and the Staff with a Bloodletter sword, the head with the fantasy Chaos Lord on juggernaut daemon head, and some wing in the back (representing the spell)
For me a count as army is when you use something like orcs, as Tau, or even Dark eldar as Eldar since weapons, armors, vehicles are completely diferent.
Diference between SM and CSM is just horns and spikes, main stuff is the same.
check my Plog here and check my baal and comment please.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=292710
Like I said in my earlier post I really don't care what people play with hell half the time my army is grey cuz I'm lazy as hell when it comes to painting and when I am painting it's for someone else's army. My only point is it is easy to get confused. Hell I'm a night shifter which means I usually go to bed around oh 7-8 am most tourneys I attend start around 10-11 which means I don't sleep before a Tournament I go to school all day, work all night, then go home pick up my stuff and head to the game shop. By game 3 I'm tired and admittedly sometimes irritable and I make mistakes... The guy across the table from you could be me... Or someone like me... And make a mistake.
Do your thing man I'm not telling anyone what's right from wrong just saying there is a polar opposite to your situation and you cannot get upset at someone for it. Now when it comes to idiots coming on here trolling... That's a whole different beast.
@sgt Brisbane
Yeah I agree and I had a comment saying much the same thing earlier but deleted it to avoid drama. I also would notnormally boycott a tourney for format or scoring reasons cause I see a need for solidarity and we don't need another dividing line in the hobby. HOWEVER st Valentine massacre is taking that way to far! I won't support that tourney either because the hypocrisy is running rampant!
Kaintxu,
Army sounds flavorful, id love to see picks if you got them.
Chris,
Thanks for taking the time and expressing your point and I feel for an overnighter trying to play in a tourney. You gave some very valid points and I'll keep them in mind when poking the hornet nest! Do me a favor and get some sleep!;)
Hi chris.
Sorry if my comment seemed against you, it has nothing to do with attacking you, it's just about those trolls or people who really argue every single bit they can instead of using common sense.
Orcs as IG ---> Proxy
Chaos as SM, or SM as chaos ---> WYSIWYG
In that last case scenario, all models are equiped with exactly the the same equipment as per the respective codex entrance.
Imagine I get some SM and add to them spikes even chaos mark, but the original model is SM one, what would it count as?
Matt, is Still a great WiP, but as soon as I have it, i would post you some pictures, I'm the kind of really lazy guy when it comes to painting and transforming, this is going to be my first ever painted army (or transformed) since I've allways gone with out of sprue armies and I hate painting, and I've been in this hobby for 14 year.....
I know, no comments on that
I am with you matt, as long as things are WYSIWYG it should be fine. If somebody gets confused because stuff has some spikes on it or is the wrong color (but every weapon and option taken is WYSIWYG) then perhaps a thinking man's game like 40k, at least at a tourney level isn't for them.
I think people tend to find cop outs when they get beat by something and Counts as is an easy crutch for people to hate on. It goes hand in hand with saying an army is cheese or that the salamanders shouldn't have bikes for fluff reasons or whatever other cop-out reasons people have for hating an army.
I am curious as to how far the V-day ban goes. Can a guy take Ravenwing with BA rules to fit their fluff of assault pack heavy troops? Is it just Chaos that suffers the brunt of the ban? If so, it just seems like a cop-out from the TO as well.
Personally, I have thrown down a counts as army a couple times with my Chaos and most people where very impressed with the conversions and modelling and the one time a player looked sick seeing it, he was in love with the concept by the time the game was over, even though he had been beaten soundly in a tourney by it.
@ Old school,
If people want to find a reason to hate, they will and there is no stopping it. Its childish in my opinion!
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